Bonus Content – How to Have Constructive Conversations Across Differences – Dr. Ruben Rivera

Welcome to the H.U.E Podcast!

The bonus content in this episode is from our podcast series: Will the Church Ever be Free of White Supremacy?

In this episode, Dr. Ruben Rivera shares core principles that are necessary for  effective conversations on controversial topics. Drawing upon examples from his twenty-plus years of experience in intergroup dialogue, Dr. Rivera illustrates how it is possible to challenge and disagree with others constructively through a posture of curiosity and humility.

Visit to listen to the complete series and listen to the Lyrical Lesson partnered with this episode.



Ep. 2 The Privilege of Complexity – Dr. Ruthanne Crapo Kim

Welcome to the H.U.E Podcast!

*SPECIAL NOTE – If you have not done so, please listen to the Introduction Episode of this series first. (scroll down)*

This is the second guest interview in the series: Will the Church Ever be Free of White Supremacy?

*NOTE: Suicide is briefly discussed in this interview.*

In this episode, Dr. Ruthanne Crapo Kim demonstrates the courage of authenticity to disrupt the norm of hurtful stereotypes. She also emphasizes the distinction between healing versus accepting others expectations as a cure, or standard, to live up to. Dr. Ruthanne points to the healing liberation of the Gospel, to inspires us to adopt paradigms of wonder and curiosity about those around us and the complexity of their stories.

Visit to view the resources we discuss and listen to the Lyrical Lesson partnered with this episode.

The next episode with Dr. Ruben Rivera will be released on Friday, June, 19th.


Ep. 2 Lyrical Lesson – The Privilege of Complexity

Similar to our guest Dr. Ruthanne Crapo Kim, the artist Propaganda delivers thought-provoking, intellectually grounded, and authentically vulnerable passion to his music. His identity as a believer in Christ is accompanied with a resolve to honestly share the process of his faith by confronting his own questions and weaknesses while embracing paradigms of wonder. In his album Crooked, the first and last songs complete a meta narrative of Isaiah 45:2, “I will go before you and make the crooked paths straight” (NKJV). Both songs encompass the messages discussed in this episode.


Propaganda – Crooked Ways


Propaganda – Made Straight